Angry Black Woman Says I'll Never Be More Than a Lowly Slush Reader -- Ouch!

Meandering Thoughts

(-or- Wondering Where the Hell I Am)

5th-May-2007 11:19 am

So I came across a post from Angry Black Woman, wherein she rails against the specfic world for not publishing more stories featuring non-white, non-male characters. Interesting post, and I was foolish enough to leave a comment, even though I knew it probably would turn ugly.

I was right.

My response:

I’m just a lowly slushmonkey at The Town Drunk, and I can say:

a) I don’t give a f&*^ who the writer is — half the time I don’t even look at the name before I start reading — I’m just looking for a good story (and in our case, humorous). If it features a black, gay vampire battling a Hispanic, transgender zombie, and it’s funny and well written, chances approach 100% it gets kicked up the line.
b) I completely disagree that it’s the editor’s job to reach out to “unconventional” writers — it is the job of the writer to hit up Duotrope or Ralan to find places to send their story. Sorry, no special treatment for anyone. I know, for example, that the editor of my magazine has a full time job, a husband, makes her own attempts to write, and I imagine she enjoy some kind of social life. That doesn’t leave a lot of time for finding non-male, non-white authors to submit. (Oh, and 3 of our last 8 stories were written by women).
c)Publish stories that reflect a true balance (but don’t lower your standards to do so). Nice idea, but not to implementable in my mind. I know at least 95% of the slush I read isn’t fit for publishing in a high school literary mag, which isn’t unusual, but the ethnicity of a character means squat to me — once again, good stories get kicked up, the rest go straight to the round file.

It seems that the only way to really “fix” this problem is at the grassroots level. How many kids in inner city America even know about science fiction literature? I doubt many. Hell, with the inadequacies in our education system, a lot of black kids don’t even get a good education — how are they supposed to grow up to be speculative fiction wordsmiths? Is it fair? Nope. Is there anything an editor can do? I can’t think of anything. This is a cultural issue (US culture, that is), and I don’t see how Gordon van Gelder or Brit Marshalk (my editor) can do anything, short of volunteering to teach poor kids (be they brown, white, black, or polka dotted) how to appreciate literature.

So instead of railing against editors, start collecting speculative literature for inner city school libraries and wait a while — chances are, some of those kids are going to grow up to write specfic. As it stands, the majority of people who read science fiction are white dudes. I ride the bus, which is a good microcosm for poor/minority folks, and I see very few people even reading books. I don’t recall ever seeing any nonwhite person reading speculative fiction, and if someone has a book, I try to see what they’re reading.

Oh, and I don’t think that being a white male writer has helped me get published anywhere — all 5 of my sales have come through years of hard work and honing my craft. And I’ll be damned if I’m going to encourage anyone to get there through any other route. I’m poor, I work hard to frickin’ survive, and I give up a lot to write.

Anyone else is welcome to follow me into the fray, and if they submit a good story and I slush it, they’ll get love. If they submit crap, they get a rejection. Simple as that.

Her response was predictable:

Dear David Reagan,

No, it’s not as simple as that. That you’re unwilling to consider any of my points valid shows that you’re unwilling to consider that you might be wrong. And as such, you’ll always remain a lowly slush reader.

Love,
ABW

And I added:

OMG, what, are you in high school?

Your response makes no sense -- according to your arguments, as a white man, I'm the one most likely to find success in the field.

So which is it?

And do you reject my hypothesis that nonwhite kids should be encouraged to read more specfic so that they'll grow up to submit in the genre? Or should we introduce affirmative action into writing -- well, it's a crappy story, the opening five pages are irrelevant infodump, but hey, the writer ain't white, so let's publish it. That should be good for readership. I need Visine from all the eye rolling I'm doing over hear.

Make sure a wide range of people know that your magazine accepts unsolicited submissions by reaching out and posting notifications in venues frequented by non-white and non-male individuals.

Care to name a few? Solutions are good, bitching, moaning and groaning is so old and accomplishes very little. I didn't realize there were market listings that catered to non-white, non-male writers.

Put your money where your mouth is. Publish more stories by established authors that feature non-default people and non-default settings so that newer authors (and readers) will see your market as open to diverse views and ideas.

If we get 'em, and they're good, I already said I'd forward them. So once again, provide an answer -- how do you make these subs magically appear?

Oh, wait, dialogue is wasted breath in these situations. It's like trying to talk politics -- anyone who disagrees with you is a poopoo head, and only your take on the matter is valid.

Agree? Disagree? Bring it on.

You should probably rewrite the last line of your post to read, "Agree -- right on. Disagree -- your opinion is worthless and you're a (insert derogatory comment). Bring it on, but only if you think I'm correct in what I've said."

Love, kisses, and TANSTAAFL,
David
(aka Lowly Slushmonkey and hard-working writer paying my dues)

Ya'll are more than welcome to pile on in the comments, whether you agree or disagree. I promise, I won't call you names if you think I'm wrong ;)

EDIT: Things are getting nasty over there.

Tags:blogosphere, diversity, writing

Comments

5th-May-2007 05:11 pm (UTC)

woodrunner

I don't think you're wrong. I think Angry Black Woman is not considering all possible aspects of the situation.

For one thing, she says she'd like to see more diversity in the books she reads. I'd like to ask how diverse her library is, but that's a personal attack, so I won't go there. However, by her own argument, it's upstanding white males who make up the majority of the slush piles, and if one keeps in mind the tenet that a writer must (generally) write what they know, then the corollary is that there will be an equivalent number of upstanding white male characters.

For another, and I'm paraphrasing, she would like to see established (emphasis mine) writers be published for writing non-traditional situations with non-traditional characters. I'd like to ask how many stories from a single established writer she has read - has she stayed within a book series, or diverged to other titles the writer has written? If in the same series, then of course the established writer will write within the tenets of the world built for the series, but generally non-serialized books by the same authors show a vast difference in character types and settings.

In the last book I read, admittedly an urban fantasy, there was one gay character, two Italian vampires, a lot of werewolves, who, by manner of speaking, mannerisms and names could be imagined as either white or black or Hispanic, depending on who's doing the reading and whether that person views those mannerisms and names as white or black or Hispanic. Nowhere in the book does the author specify that, this guy is white, or this guy is black. A good author shouldn't have to, and should allow the reader to make up their own mind.

Maybe it's just me, but I read a book a while back where there were a few characters who had French names. I know of many gentlemen, personally, who have French names and French manners who are people of colour. So, just because there are characters in a book who have French names, do you automatically think of them as Caucasian?

And, finally... If one doesn't like the books on the bookshelves, finding them somehow lacking... Then they should shut up and write the books they want to read themselves, and work at getting them submitted to appropriate markets. A well-written book is a well-written book, no matter who wrote it and no matter its contents.

5th-May-2007 05:14 pm (UTC)

woodrunner

Oh, yes - I should mention that I bolded "established" in my earlier comment for a reason, but then lost track of where I was as I continued to type. Oops.

What's wrong with UNESTABLISHED writers?

6th-May-2007 09:27 am (UTC)

hkneale

Silly boy. You started a fight with an angry black woman. You're not gonna win, no matter how true your arguements are. {g}

I thought you had good points. You're taking the viewpoint of a meritocracy (a system I, too, endorse).

You're far more tenuous than I would have been. I would have rolled my eyes at her response and let things go. All the smart people would have realised what I would have realised--you can't "win" an argument with someone whose dander is up.

If she feels that more "people of colour" and other "minorities" need higher representation, then she should advocate something that puts them in a position to achieve higher representation, perhaps something similar to the Aug 18 Slushbomb, which encourages more women to submit to a particular SF market. More subs by a certain demographic means better chances of that demographic selling.

Ah well, I never was one much for arguments.

6th-May-2007 10:46 pm (UTC)

ktempest

If she feels that more "people of colour" and other "minorities" need higher representation, then she should advocate something that puts them in a position to achieve higher representation

How do you know I haven't?

7th-May-2007 09:16 am (UTC)

hkneale

I don't. I haven't heard a peep.

There is a difference between someone (not necessarily you, but anyone) saying, "There isn't enough of X," and saying, "This is what is happening to address X."

So tell us what you've done.

7th-May-2007 11:31 am (UTC)

ktempest

So tell us what you've done.

1 - You know, I find it funny, frsutrating, sad, typical, and unoriginal when white people come upon a discussion of racism and immediately go into "But what are YOU going to do about it?" mode. As if writing/talking about it in a public forum and inviting discussion amongst a wide range of people isn't Doing Something. As if the onus is on the marginalized person, the person with the least power in the relationship, who can and should do the greater part of the work instead of the person or people who have more instutitional power and therefore are more likely to help change along.

It's like if I saw someone drowning in a pool, yelled "OMG! He's drowning!" and people who know how to swim (but don't want to get their hair wet - I just had it done yesterday!) said, "Well, what are you going to do about it?" If I knew how to swim, I wouldn't have needed to point out the drowning to other people.

This is the typical response of people who don't want to acknowledge their privilege and/or want to continue benefitting from it without making changes. Ignore the problem/throw back the onus to fix the problem on people who are least likely to solve it on their own, and then nothing will change and I don't have leave my cozy comfort zone ever.

I have no clue how much of my post you read, heidi, but you clearly did not read it all the way through. not surprising. I'm willing to bet you followed the link with your opinion already formed. You'd already decided that David was right and I was wrong. You may not have realized that I am the ABW (or, you may have) and thus went in to "someone I don't know is attacking my friend and I shall support him" blindness. But my post is BOTH "There isn't enough of X," and "This is what people can do to address X."

2 - I don't need to tell you what I've done. It's not on me to prove a damn thing here. I'm tired of having white folks demand that I prove myself. I don't even care if you don't feel that's what you did with that statement. The lame clicheness of your first comment combined with this comment is almost as well documented as the lame clicheness David demonstrated over in the comments on my post. It never, ever ceases to amaze me how similar you all sound when discussions of this nature come up. This is the language people with privilege use to marginalize voices and, I'm sorry, I will not stand for it. I like you personally, insofar as our limited interactions go, but I won't cut you any slack.

I'm sure David won't be happy to see this comment on his LJ. He may even delete it. And since this is his space on the Internet and not mine, I won't continue the discussion here or spark a flamewar. If you want to reply to me, do it over on ABW blog, or hop on over to my LJ.

12th-May-2007 03:34 am (UTC)

leatherzebra

Malcolm X, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.... see, they saw a world and were dissatisfied with it. So they stepped up and changed it. They didn't just gripe about it.

Sorry to muck up your livejournal. I forgot I had previously posted. But then, that's before I read ABW's opinion.

Personally I'm incredibly glad that David judges a story on it's merit, not on whether there's cats (or minorities, or whatever) in it. That sort of neutrality is what we need to create more strong markets for beginning writers.

12th-May-2007 05:18 am (UTC)

ktempest

ohhh, so THIS is where you came from. I should have guessed. It looks like a severe lack of reading comprehension skills runs in this particular set of friends. That's good to know.

You white people crack me up. You're so quaint and predictable.

18th-May-2007 11:30 pm (UTC)

rachel_swirsky

Yet another instance where Barry's cartoon about reverse racism comes in handy:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/i_dreamed_i_was/racerelations.jpg

"Look, if I got here on my own, why can't you?"

11th-May-2007 11:18 pm (UTC) - Unpopular Opinion here...

leatherzebra

But I strongly believe this rant (er, hers I mean, yours makes sense, I mean, even if the kids don't read SF, or don't like what they read, they're still reading right? Anyway...) reflects the attitude of a vary large proportion of the populous. I've seen in from white and black and hispanic and asian... it boils down to "I'm [minority race, social class, tax bracket, religion] so you OWE me an easier path." It's not just present in writing. Being a minority in any way (I'm white, damn. But I'm a woman. Oh, and I'm pagan! There ya go, there's how I'm owed.) should be an obstacle to overcome, not a free pass. Special treatment should go to people who have a genuine financial/physical/whatever need for it. For example, my son is autistic and just got on SSI. I feel absolutely horrible about being a leech on the government for getting a check. But it allows us to get him occupational and speech therapy outside the school. It allows us to travel to specified social groups where he is accepted, not seen as "that weird stupid kid".

But I also do not teach my son to use "I'm autistic" as an excuse. When his former school put a ton of pressure on me to "just admit that he wasn't able to do this work" I told them where to go. They wouldn't tell a black kid "Oh, you're black, and black kids just aren't as good at math, so you don't have to do as much work as the other kids." And that is EXACTLY what Angry Black Woman is saying. "We are not white males, therefore we are not going to be as good at this, so we need special considerations."

That is complete bull. Minorites (remember I mean not just racial minorities, but religious and gender and everything else too) would not tolerate a majority saying those things about them, so why are they saying it about themselves?

12th-May-2007 03:28 am (UTC)

leatherzebra

I am absolutely disgusted by the crap over there. How the hell can someone think it's okay to be anti-white/male while preaching that it's not okay to be racist or sexist?

It's just another "they won't publish me because they don't see my genius" argument.

12th-May-2007 07:44 pm (UTC)

terra_lily

How the hell can someone think it's okay to be anti-white/male while preaching that it's not okay to be racist or sexist?

CRT 101.

18th-May-2007 11:26 pm (UTC)

rachel_swirsky

David,

I'm kind of flabbergasted that you'd post this. Do you deny the existence of institutional racism?

And of course things got nasty. You started them out by being nasty.

19th-May-2007 06:45 am (UTC)

coolmajaka

I'm gonna make a post about all this in the next day or two. I've been kinda digesting the whole thing, and today I actually dreamed about it, which means my subconscious has been at work.

My snurched wifi connection has been sucking, which is all kinds of pain in the ass, and has seriously interfered with my blogosphere interaction.

Needless to say, it's been a wild ride, and I appreciate all the comments, pro or con.

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